I’ve been unmotivated to write any entries for the past couple of months, because I’ve spent a lot of energy on my personal/professional life, and that took a lot of time. In summary, I’m doing contract/consulting work for a while back at Brontes with my old office-mates. It’s been 3 weeks doing that, and it has been real fun. It’s felt like a homecoming, in a way. I’ll blog more about it later. Let’s first get to the poisonous jerks who are gangrenes.
The gentoo-dev mailing list has seen a lot of activity in the past couple of days. The noise-to-signal ratio has been pretty much infinite. The thread starts with kingtaco’s request for a status update on the package manager spec. The usual suspect (is there ever any other with the ability to rile so many people up?) at work here: one Ciaran McCreesh.
The story is the same. You have someone who’s super smart at technical things. Ciaran probably truly believes that his posts are technical. He may not even see that he comes off like a jack-ass more than half the time (settle down, fanboys). I’ve been observing his behaviour in this most recent thread, and I’ll be perfectly frank: he is an asshole, most of the time. He brings a double standard to the table: it’s NOT acceptable for you to make a mistake, and if you do, you need to apologise repeatedly. He, himself, is above making mistakes. And if he makes one, he is above acknowledging such trivialities. Apologies? Those are what other people do. If you say something, you better be prepared to highlight the relevant syllables in the relevant words of the relevant sub-clauses in the relevant paragraphs of the relevant subsections of the relevant chapters of the relevant documentation. If he says something, you better be happy with “go look it up.” Of course there are no personal attacks from him. Those only exist in this world in one direction: to him (see above about apologies). And finally, he’s happy taking something that’s partly applicable to a small part of a group of people and paint the entire group with that brush. Don’t you even THINK about painting him so broadly (see above about the relevant documentation!).
And so, this poisonous behaviour has been a fixture of Gentoo for a number of years. Is he technically proficient, even superior? I don’t think you’ll find dissent there. The point that most people make is that that is not a currency exchange for bad behaviour. And they are right, it is not. The fact is that the gentoo-dev mailing list is a community. A community is made up of people. Thus, to be a part of that community, is by necessity to interact with the people in it. There is a fair number of people who look beyond all his vitriol to his technical merits. But those are not the people with whom he has a problem. It’s the other x% of the population.
It’s a waste of time, you see, to question him on any of the things he does or says. It’s perfectly fine, however, for you to waste your own time gathering all the evidence to lay at his feet because you said something (that he may even agree with). And, every week, there’s someone who plays right into his hands. And every week someone else gets frustrated.
The above paragraphs are after a tiring, frustrating day where all I’ve been dealing with is tired, frustrated developers about Ciaran. I’m trying my best to be objective on this.
Ciaran is not the devil incarnate. I don’t think he is inherently evil, or inherently out to derail anyone who is not part of his circle of approved people. Rather, I think a number of factors are at play. The root factor is a mystery to me — his behaviour as a developer changed from when he first became a dev to the day he got kicked out. It’s a night and day thing. He retained his sarcasm. But his cynicism increased by orders of magnitude. And with that, the way he addressed people changed.
Most people, when they get kicked out of a project, go away. He did not. To his credit, he stayed, and still is very generous with the products of his labours. He gives back to Gentoo, a lot of good, strong technical stuff. The PMS, when it is done, I have full confidence will be a rock-solid document. The devmanual that was his intiative is a good example of such rock-solidity. Paludis as a complete independently developed package manager is another good example of his capabilities. In all three cases, I’ll note that he’s not the soloist. That he has a lead role in all three is without question, though. And the people who work with him on those projects display a fierce loyalty to him.
So obviously, he knows how to interact in a respectful and civil manner. One can only assume that he chooses not to. Is it a lead-role thing? Could be, I don’t know. Is it a personal issue he has in real life? Could also be, I don’t know. I’ve never met him in person. Those who have seem to come away with a fairly pleasant impression of him. Whenever I have worked with him in gentoo development, I have come away with a favourable impression of him. While I like him on a personal level, I can’t help but shake my head in frustration at his antics on the mailing lists.
The long and the short of it is that there are calls for silencing him on the mailing list by banning him. As tactless, jerky, dickheady, half-truthy, vague as he gets on the list, I don’t think that that is the way to solve “the ciaranm problem.” I’m not alone in my belief that trolls should not be fed. Thus, if you perceive him to be trolling, don’t take the bait. Trolls feed off the attention they get (and ciaran certainly does, too), so the best thing to do is to not give them any. Banning him also does not change the culture that gentoo dev has adopted.
Numerous times just today, people have preferred to assume the worst in others, and proceeded to attack them. The name-calling results shortly thereafter. The real gangrene is that culture that enables this sort of behaviour, the one that tolerates that one dev can insult another (“dickwad”, “dickhead”, “fuckwad” are examples that immediately come to mind), blaming that developer for not doing exactly the thing that they did. Mercifully, that particular poisonous individual left the project. Yet, he should have faced consequences. He behaved reprehensibly and then walked away, with nary a consequence. He should have been kicked (there were multiple instances of that sort of abuse from him)!
And yes, he was part of the larger ciaranm circle of people, but that is besides the point.
What is not besides the point is that Gentoo developers every day continue to be rude, disrespectful, insulting, and back-stabbing with each other and users, and there are no corrective measures taken.
I submit to you, my fine Gentoo readers, that the culture of gentoo is what needs to change. These sorts of behaviours should not be tolerated, and their perpetrators disavowed. Not as a matter of policy, bureaucracy and red-tape, but as a matter of common human decency.
In part 2 I will endeavour to trace how this culture got to where it is.
View Seemant Kulleen's profile
270 Comments
As an end-user I completely agree with the overall conclusions.
To rephrase and overstate Briant's comment above: how can you expect to attract even new users?
I remember one entry some time ago where you mentioned that Gentoo is not a user-centered distribution (can't recall the exact term but nevertheless; was it even you?). I did not quite get it. For whom does a distribution distribute if not the users who use the distribution?
And if the packages are distributed for the users, so is parts of the culture distributed, and in lines with elementary sociology we could well assume that the mass culture starts to mimic the subculture. When this happens with the current ''ciaranism'', the healing process takes much longer than it would take with the subculture of few hundred people. Thus, if you feed the trolls, you eventually feed also the users with the same food.
There is the big gap between users and the developers of Gentoo. This gap is part of any distribution with reasonably large user base. But my feeling has always been that the gap is culturally much more sharper and disfigured in Gentoo. The same culture can be observed when two random Gentoo users meet, start to discuss and disagree. This is what has always scared me.
I can not quite recall another distribution nor an open-source project where this kind of a culture would witness itself so evidently from top to the very bottom. And it truly amazes me how long this kind of a culture has been able to survive without being eventually replaced by a more healthy one.
Hi an_end_user,
It was, indeed, me who made the claim in a previous blog post or two that gentoo is not a user-focused distribution. I still stand by that, but we can argue on those two posts instead. :P
In the meanwhile, yes I basically agree with your every premise. While I can see the Gentoo technology attracting new users, I can not see the Gentoo community doing so,.
I will blog in the next week or so about this more.
I'm a completely uninvolved person who happened to stumble upon this discussion, read through the thread being discussed — and note that it obviously and unambiguously was one Daniel Robbins who was the jerk in that thread, even more or less admitting that he was motivated to get ciaranm banned, and then himself resigned and withdrew from the mailing list. Quite a number of other people such as Steve Long and Juk something-or-other bashed ciaranm, accusing him of all sorts of behavior he never displayed. In psychiatric circles ciaranm is what is known as “the identified patient” — identified by dysfunctional family or group in denial of their own problems. But in fact ciaranm did nothing objectionable in that thread other than display some excessive negativity toward Brian someone.
“He simply isn’t polite, and puts people at odds with that base and cervile behavior. ”
This sort of thing is immensely intellectually dishonest. There were many people in that thread who were not polite, far less polite than he was.
“For me it is clear that making the rejoined founder of the Gentoo-project quit the project”
No one <i>made</i> him resign; he resigned of his own free will, and in the process of being an utter jerk.
“If you read my post carefully, you’ll see that I haven’t labeled Ciaran any one broad way.”
That is simply a lie.
“I have praised him where due”
That doesn't change the fact that you have labeled him broadly — “jerk”, “poison”, ” comes off like a jack-ass more than half the time”, etc.
The fact is that you are clearly a pompous gossipy self-serving jerk, despite whatever positive qualities you may possess.
JQB,
Thanks for commenting. I feel like you might have missed the point of this post (and the fact that it is part 1 of 3 posts). I did not call Ciaran a jerk or a poison and leave it at that. I referred to his behaviour in recent times on the lists as poisonous and jerky. I go as far as to paint myself with a similar brush in future posts.
I'm definitely pompous, no denying that. I dare say 100% of the population is self-serving. As for gossipy, I can see why you might be inclined to think so. But I don't see it in myself.
You left me no email by which to notify you that I've responded to your comments, so I fully expect no response from you, though if you happen to stop by again, it'd be nice.
wonderful post, thank you.
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